Under 18?

[livewire]

Also certain game arrangers have gotten permission from the police to allow -18's to play, I won't name them because it becomes the normal shit fest these discussions tend to take but if they wish to pipe up then so be it, have even been to a few large games (at least 60-80 people iirc) where there has been -18's playing with no problem , so in fact Grims statement is correct Elestro

Also there is a common trend in these discussions that individuals have supposedly had contact with the police and have gotten a statement saying this and that which can be neither proved or disproved, and a often a contradictory answer depending on which representative of the police they have spoken to

[Elestro]

Fair enough Livewire.
It would appear as if the authorities doesn't really know how to interpret the law in question in regards to airsoft.

I rejected Grims theory that all notions of it being illegal for minors to use Airsoft guns, are lies and opinions.
That's just not factually correct and we even have a sentence in a court of law as solid proof of that.

As JonathanRL wrote in another thread regarding this, the law in question isn't written with Airsoft in mind, hence, it becomes difficult to implement sometimes.
However, there is still problematic legal questions present when it comes to minors and Airsoft.
All it takes is an incident and all this good-will and permissions from Police e.t.c. will be gone faster than a fart in a spring-wind and we'll be stuck with something like UKARA and pink plastic shit on our guns.

[livewire]

Well I haven't actually seen a case of anyone being prosecuted whilst partaking in the like of a organised airsoft game with a adult overseer , the cases that other individuals could link to, in a discussion that was several pages long, were of young lads behaving like idiots or being unsupervised which I totally agreed with, Grims point was that its not a blanket ban which so many individuals have attempted to say it is, If people don't want to play with -18s then fine then say so, its a persons prerogative just like mine is that I don't want to play with a load of nobbers in Dye masks and COD loadouts

Also UKARA is a response to the violent crime act in the UK to give genuine individuals some form of defence for owning a imitation firearm or realistic imitation firearm (basically so you don't go out and rob some poor soul or establishment), even though it limits the sale of airsoft weapons to under 18s(RIFs or IFs) there is no prohibition on under 18s playing airsoft or owning an airgun or airsoft is legal from the age of 10

Interesting reading might be this talking about limiting the energy of airsoft weapons in the uk, which is due to come into effect shortly or already is

https://www.ukapu.org.uk/wp-content/upl ... letter.pdf

https://www.ukapu.org.uk/wp-content/upl ... letter.pdf

However I do get the gist of what you mean

[Elestro]

It all depends on how the authorities interpret the law in place.
It clearly states, that minors can use Airsoft-guns with adult supervision. (On a range, or on fixed targets)
I've never argued that there's a "blanket ban" in place, only that it CAN be a violation of Swedish law for minors to operate Airsoft-weapons and it all depends on if the authorities thinks one can have sufficient oversight of minors during an airsoft-game.
To call that fact "opinions/lies" are simply wrong.

Knowing Sweden, the second somebody gets hurt, the fun is over.

Haha, what's a CoD-loadout?

Yes I know. But similar opinions exists in Sweden and airsoft-guns are regularly used in crime.
I don't think the issue for most is if one wants to play with minors or not, but in that people are scared that reckless minors will be the trigger of additional regulations on Airsoft or even a nationwide ban.
Last summer, two minors with airsoft guns nearly got shot by police in Huddinge, and that sparked an intense ban-debate.

I've spend WAY to much time in this forum today. I'm out Have a good one mate

[JonathanRL]

In a case from 2005, a minor was convicted when he was in the same house as the Guardian in question. Do note that he is not only charged for the shot from the balcony but also for the unsupervised target shooting in the house. Hovrätten so argues you would at least need to be in the same room to prevent misuse and slapped a conviction on the kid for Ringa Vapenbrott; Högsta Domstolen confirmed it.

Therefore, it is now part of the legal foundation today's courts would draw from. This is important because a court today would most likely use it as a starting point to what conditions must apply for a person to have considered having control over the actions of somebody else. We do not know the effect this ruling would have on an Airsoft game - only guesswork and speculation - but I would prefer to be on the safe side.

https://lagen.nu/dom/nja/2005s758

[livewire]

Same house, different room, no direct supervision, as was my point when you pulled up the same article a while back, adult supervision cannot be maintained through a brick wall and myself personally thinks that judgement was completely correct, but no one has been able to pull up a case when a minor who is under the control of a responsible adult has been charged. Also could one honestly believe that in 12 years it hasn't happened I know I've been at large games with under 18s in the past few years.

En person under 18 år har lånat ett effektbegränsat vapen, en s.k. soft air gun, och använt det i ett rum i familjens bostad utan att någon av hans föräldrar var närvarande i rummet. Han har dömts för vapenbrott eftersom långivaren inte haft sådan kontroll över vapnets innehav och användning som kravet på uppsikt i 3 kap. 3 § c)

But I guess until there's new info instead of recycling old cases where the circumstance differ completely I'll just let sleeping dogs lie

[Marcules]

Varför skriver ni på engelska? livewire läser ju svenska utan problem.

Är inte problemet med barn att de inte kan godkänna att bli lätt misshandlade på samma sätt som en vuxen? Eller att det måste finnas skriftligt eller nåt? Hur fungerar det i paintball?

Personligen vill jag att det ska bli "lagligt" (ändrat åsikt sen sist) så att jag bara kan åka på 18+ spel med identifikationskontroll, när det är förbjudet riskerar man ju att spela med minderåriga som låtsas vara 18+ tills de tycker att man gjort nåt fel och anmäler en för barnmisshandel.

[Erka]

Sorry om vi kommer av oss lite men kom att fundera på risken att bli anmäld för barnmisshandel.

Finns det någon statistik på hur många som blivit anmälda för barnmisshandel pga minderårig som som tycker man gjort fel?
Det nämns väldigt ofta som argument eller något som skrämmer många.
Det hade varit intressant med statistik i det hela.
Jag har inte märkt av det under mina år i hobbyn, men då har jag mest spelat på banor vid mindre städer. Kanske att det är ett vanligare fenomen i storstäderna? (Malmö/Göteborg/Stockholm)

[Astiban]

Testa att lek med tanken Erka.

Du är ute å pangar på ditt lokala spel och så råkar du skjuta ut en tand, skjuta hål på huden eller träffa ett barn/Tonåring i ögat.
Hen skakar av sig den första smärtan medans du förklara att det var en olykshändelse och till sist skakar ni tass och alla är glada.
Men när hen kommer hem och vådnadshavarna ser skadan hur reagerar dom?
Hur skulle du reagera om ditt barn kom hem från en aktivitet som hen inte får vara på förns den blivit myndig?
Skulle du tycka att ditt barn spelat med "mogna" personer, eller skulle du bli hel apshitcrazy på dessa personer som villigt riskerar ditt barn för att det inte finns några klara regler?

Det är det scenariot jag oroar mig för när jag spelar.

Om jag sen spelar på banor som har någon form av uppgörelse med polis, föräldrar och försäkringsbolag då är det fine för mig, tror jag....

[Grim Nyberg]

Reaktionen på ett sånt scenario lär blir likvärdigt som när någon under 18 spelat paintball, kört motorkross, sparkat karate och andra våldsamma sporter som också likt allt annat kan råka ut för olyckor.